At the moment, this is the bane of our existence. That phrase, "Too Big to Fail", is why we've just sucked up $700 Billion and bailed out a bunch
of Rich Bastards. The problem is it serves as a permanent Insurance for "The Biggness", and from what I am gleaning - from my admittedly ignorant
position - our new bailout shows that steady erosion from any balance of reformation and insurance for the tax-payers footing the bill as opposed to the deal
that came out of the Savings and Loan Debacle... ie, it appears we have moreso than that one a "No Strings Attached" bail-out this time around. So...
How does one defeat the "Too Big to Fail", or are we just at the mercy of the "Rich write all the Laws" rule?
"Too Big to Fail"
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 Howie |
"Too Big to Fail" |
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Posts: 3498 (09/21/08 09:16:46) |
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Zenman |
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Posts: 2036 (09/21/08 10:53:11) |
I think it's beyond bailing out the rich bastards at this point, Howiemon. It's pretty much all about trying to save the system now. They're doing
whatever they can to keep it from crashing, including daily emergency funding and treasury guarantees backed by what's left of the gold in Fort Knox.
Unprecedented (since the 1930's anyway) last stick effort type stuff. The question really becomes who's going to bail out the tax payers?
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Thinker102 |
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Posts: 1711 (09/21/08 11:54:43) |
Other boards I go to, the posters are getting really ticked off about this. As in Lynch Mob and Revolution type ticked off.
I find the way the reactions of the congressional leaders changed after the emergency meeting from somewhat skeptical to`we gotta do something now' to be of interest; I think the Powers That Be are starting to panic. The bailout bill itself, though...I find that to be an invite to major league corruption and cronyism, setting the Treasury Sec up as a virtual financial dictator whose decisions cannot be legally challenged (or otherwise challenged). Take this in combination with the likes of Blackwater - a mercenary outfit whose members are apparently immune to both civilian and military law - and the likes of Halliburton....and things have the potential to get very scary here. For what it be worth, some of the nutball sites are claiming Oct 7 or thereabouts as the next day of significance in this mess. |
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Zenman |
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Posts: 2037 (09/21/08 13:22:10) |
I think they've moved it up to Oct 5, 102, on the boards where I lurk anyway.
I think the gov't is at a place now where they pretty much have to take these drastic measures to try to patch up the massive mess, even at the risk of revolution and such. The alternative is an economic crash that some think would be worse than 1929, and I think some might be right. I'm going to Wamu tomorrow to clean things out, and I'm converting what I can to cash and fishsteaks and such, and will hopefully have enough left over to buy a small lot very soon to bury stuff on and grow potatoes. (No one has given me tickets to the Underground Super City yet, so I guess I might be on my own.) |
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Thinker102 |
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Posts: 1712 (09/21/08 16:44:33) |
I'm going to Wamu tomorrow to clean things out, and I'm converting what I can to cash and fishsteaks and such, and will hopefully have enough left over to buy a small lot very soon to bury stuff on and grow potatoes. (No one has given me tickets to the Underground Super City yet, so I guess I might be on my own.)I have been coming across the odd tale about pulling money out of such institutions, Zen. Everything from 'runaround refusals' (I'm sorry, I'm not authorized to withdraw that much money, so I'll have to go speak to ----') to nasty fees that spring back at you weeks or months later. Good luck. Have you selected a lot for Zenville, yet, or are you still searching? As to the underground super city...I suspect that some of our leaders either wish it existed or are hoping to move there themselves. |
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Zenman |
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Posts: 2038 (09/21/08 18:21:10) |
I don't have enough cash there to pull out that it will raise any eyebrows I don't think, lol. I will report otherwise tho.
I'm still looking for the Grand Zen Estate. Many, many options. I will take the best one when the time comes. Very soon, I think. I understand that TUSC does indeed exist and that it is within the Rocky Mtns, literally. Apparently, they've been boring it out for many years and have an underground tube type transportation system that will (or does) stretch from TUSC to L.A. as well as DC. I've also heard it speculated that the "ground hum" that many folks around the country hear or feel is caused by the boring. |
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Howie |
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Posts: 3501 (09/23/08 15:11:48) |
Date: Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 1:18 PM Subject: URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP DEAR AMERICAN: I NEED TO ASK YOU TO SUPPORT AN URGENT SECRET BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP WITH A TRANSFER OF FUNDS OF GREAT MAGNITUDE. I AM MINISTRY OF THE TREASURY OF THE REPUBLIC OF AMERICA. MY COUNTRY HAS HAD CRISIS THAT HAS CAUSED THE NEED FOR LARGE TRANSFER OF FUNDS OF 800 BILLION DOLLARS US. IF YOU WOULD ASSIST ME IN THIS TRANSFER, IT WOULD BE MOST PROFITABLE TO YOU. I AM WORKING WITH MR. PHIL GRAM, LOBBYIST FOR UBS, WHO WILL BE MY REPLACEMENT AS MINISTRY OF THE TREASURY IN JANUARY. AS A SENATOR, YOU MAY KNOW HIM AS THE LEADER OF THE AMERICAN BANKING DEREGULATION MOVEMENT IN THE 1990S. THIS TRANSACTIN IS 100% SAFE. THIS IS A MATTER OF GREAT URGENCY. WE NEED A BLANK CHECK. WE NEED THE FUNDS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. WE CANNOT DIRECTLY TRANSFER THESE FUNDS IN THE NAMES OF OUR CLOSE FRIENDS BECAUSE WE ARE CONSTANTLY UNDER SURVEILLANCE. MY FAMILY LAWYER ADVISED ME THAT I SHOULD LOOK FOR A RELIABLE AND TRUSTWORTHY PERSON WHO WILL ACT AS A NEXT OF KIN SO THE FUNDS CAN BE TRANSFERRED. PLEASE REPLY WITH ALL OF YOUR BANK ACCOUNT, IRA AND COLLEGE FUND ACCOUNT NUMBERS AND THOSE OF YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN TO WALLSTREETBAILOUT@TREASURY.GOV SO THAT WE MAY TRANSFER YOUR COMMISSION FOR THIS TRANSACTION. AFTER I RECEIVE THAT INFORMATION, I WILL RESPOND WITH DETAILED INFORMATION ABOUT SAFEGUARDS THAT WILL BE USED TO PROTECT THE FUNDS. YOURS FAITHFULLY MINISTER OF TREASURY PAULSON |
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Thinker102 |
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Posts: 1713 (09/23/08 17:04:38) |
No, no Howie...instead it'll be like this:
Paulson is on the evening news. 'Due to the great magnitude of this crisis, and the extremely urgent need for funds, today the Treasury used its emergency powers to directly transfer 5% of the balance out of *all* privately held checking and savings accounts in the entire country to the bailout fund. I realize this may cause some personal hardship for you.' A few days later: 'several wall street executives are reporting record bonus's this year'... |
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Howie |
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Posts: 3502 (09/24/08 14:52:07) |
Comment from elsewhere, actually found in Ezra Klein's blog at the American Prospect site:
Second, as for your point about "enticement" of Wall Street, I totally agree that we should just swoop down and take control of the whole lot of them. But what Paulson and Bernanke are getting at is that there's a very distinct division of labor in finance, and that the corner of Wall Street which produced this mess is wholly operated by testosterone-fueled assholes with God complexes. Even now, while the straight banking and insurance sectors are pissing their pants, the douchebags that crapped out this whole mess still think they're invincible. I know I'm getting a little "strawman" here, but I know these jerks. They really believe that don't need bailed out. They think they can cook up some new, crazy derivative to sit on top of the failed credit default swaps, restore the Wild West credit market (and by extension, liquidity), and make a shitload of money. They're complete idiots. Diabolical, narcissistic idiots, but idiots nonetheless. Bernanke and Paulson quite rightly fear that a voluntary program that isn't full of gimmes and profits will have no participants and will solve nothing. These guys (and a few women) are already rich beyond most people's wildest dreams, and don't believe that can ever change. I think Paulson and Bernanke really fear that these assholes will continue to take a series of increasingly big, stinky dumps on the global economy if we don't kiss their asses and beg them to let us buy their shit. Again, I think we should be sending jackbooted thugs into their $12M meat-packing district co-ops and take every last saleable thing they own and give it to Sarah Palin to auction on eBay. |
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Howie |
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Posts: 3504 (09/24/08 18:46:53) |
What this $700 Billion is going for:
http://www.forbes.com/hom...cx_jz_bw_0923bailout.html In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy. "It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large
number."
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Zenman |
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Posts: 2039 (09/24/08 20:37:42) |
Sounds like what he's saying is: "We really don't have any idea how much it'll take so we just tossed up a really large number."
Doesn't matter much anyway. Initial gov't cost estimates are nearly always meaningless. |
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From Afar |
reading around | ||
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Posts: 9464 (09/25/08 05:01:24) |
I'm getting the distinct impression that even if they have to weather a recession, the American people would rather suffer that now, than give away even
more to the same crew that caused this, and risk their grandkids' futures. After catering to anything Bush has asked for for 8 years, maybe even Repubs in
congress will realize this could be their finest hour, to question long and hard and make sure it is not a no-fault "bailout." People in those mostly
Fla. and Ca. housing pockets (which they should have known they couldn't afford), people who exaggerated their customer's incomes to get a commission,
all the builders who threw up high density fringe area overbuilt stuff without real community amenities, all the city councils who annexed every farm the
developers wanted to convert, the whole array of them aren't going to get any message otherwise. Sure, that's a lot of us but not all; and the rest are
being blackmailed - ie. we the stupid ones who budgeted and saved are now told we have to "share" in the pain this way because otherwise there will
be no credit for anyone. How come the taxpayers themselves can't go to Congress and ask for a big bailout or windfall to do some stuff we really need, like
business innovations, with their own taxes? Ha.
Oh, and p.s. No big tears for all the pore "foreign investors" who were fleeced either. The fallout is not like the American gov't defaulting. You bought things you didn't understand and you took a risk. Sorry. Also, to the Chavez and Ahmadinejebbab types who claim this is the "failure of capitalism" - the mortgage system that has worked for generations, my grandparents, parents, myself, etc. was capitalism. This was something else.
Last Edited By: From Afar
09/25/08 05:06:42.
Edited 1 times.
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From Afar |
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Posts: 9465 (09/25/08 05:18:03) |
Fa, two in a row. Does anyone know what percentage of this problem debt piled up specifically in the last 8 years? I'm thinking the majority of it. Which
means, Bush nearly timed out to leave behind a controversial presidency. Now no matter which way this bailout goes, he probably has no means to avoid being
labelled a "failed" one.
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Howie |
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Posts: 3505 (09/25/08 08:36:43) |
We just shoved a boatload of money into our domestic car makers for their "renovation". http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0...dd-a76a-0000779fd18c.html Good lord is this a dark era
for America, bad precedents all the way around, and a load of short term thinking on both the Auto makers' part and Americans' part coming back to
roost. Because there's nobody I trust more to pInnovate than Chrysler. Who killed the Electric Car?
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Zenman |
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Posts: 2040 (09/25/08 20:26:47) |
Well, I guess I beat the fdic to my bank by 3 days.
They didn't even wait till Friday on this one. Yow. |
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Thinker102 |
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Posts: 1714 (09/25/08 21:35:34) |
Well, I guess I beat the fdic to my bank by 3 days. But will Zen get that yard bought before the October 5th or 7th day of doom hits? I had a thought there, one that would seem to be in Howies area of expertise to answer: To have an election, you have to have candidates. If either McCain or Obama were to suddenly perish in the next couple of weeks, would that be grounds for Bush II to call off or delay the elections? Given that Bush II seems to occupy some sort of strange parallel universe and all. |
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From Afar |
comfy times | ||
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Posts: 9466 (09/26/08 04:45:16) |
If I were Bush, I think I'd want to get out of Washington and put some razor wire on top of the Crawford Tx (probably already barbed wire topped) fence at
the ranch ASAP. And take an extended vacation until around January. In the meantime, some of those republicans discussing the mess and considering what
he's done to the future of that party might just start thinking lynch mob.
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Howie |
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Posts: 3506 (09/26/08 06:22:17) |
<p>In the meantime, some of those republicans discussing the mess and considering what he's done to the future of that party might just start
thinking lynch mob.
<p>Reinvention and rejiggling happens. http://www.artsjournal.co.../right_in_dark_times.html <p>we can now witness Palin's most recent interview. It will not do to read the transcript. Only while watching the actual video is it possible fully to appreciate the wisdom of Palin's handlers in keeping her away from open microphones as much as possible: <p>Even so, it seems to me obvious that this is the face of a future president. Perhaps not this decade, but sometime in the next. It is important to understand that -- and, if not to accept it, then in some way to come to terms with it. <p>The trends that, as Lin argues in his book, hollow out any possibility of serious political discussion are precisely why Palin will be an ideal vehicle for a politics that evades deliberation, as well as the proxy for that segment of the American public (not a small part) that loathes it. <p>She will be better coached in the future, and learn the art of translating ignorance into arrogant self-confidence. She was able to manage that on a state level, but will need a little more practice to pull it off on the larger public stage. All it will take is time. <p>I don't quite buy that Sarah Palin is the Future. I think more likely they can, in the next eight years, pluck someone else out at us and successfully market him/her as opponents to an Intellectualism (Intellectualism defined once again downward, Idiocracy)-- ala George W Bush eight years ago. OR... I don't quite know the intellectual heft of Governor Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, but I do know he has a story which warms the heart of Christian Conservatives, and also covers the "Ethnic Diversity" area which might suffice in broadening the base enough as he works out his power-backed "Reformer" chops -- an Indian (India) who converted to a stark version of Catholicism, and he once wrote about performing an Exorcism. <p>But, as for Thinker's question, go to the next link ("Update") on Scott McLemee's page here.: <p>http://jonswift.blogspot....spend-whole-election.html <p>(nutty comments deleted, but available at the next blog entry of McLemee's page.)
Last Edited By: Howie
09/26/08 12:15:59.
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Howie |
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Posts: 3508 (09/26/08 14:36:26) |
I have been snickering at the "Woo Hoo" ad campaign. I think they should have gone out with "Woot" instead.
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Howie |
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Posts: 3510 (09/27/08 16:20:34) |
Another supporter for that course.:
http://theamericanscene.c...n-to-the-financial-crisis I'd also like to add that I'm really tired of Barack Obama and John McCain. Seriously. No more. I was telling my persuasive conservative friend the other day that I really wish this election pitted Vladimir Putin against Alvaro Uribe. Because let me tell you: I'm for Uribe all the way. Uribe '08! Given that we're in a state of national emergency, I see no reason not to suspend the constitutional provisions that would keep a sitting foreign head of state from becoming president. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I am fully confident that Uribe would swiftly crush the rebellion in the northern two-thirds of the United States. This "Canadian government," headquartered in Ottawa, even prints its own currency in open defiance of our sovereign rights! My understanding is that rebel leader Subcommandante Stephen Harper is interested in "warm relations" with his "neighbors to the south," to which I say: eat tank tread, rebel scum. |
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From Afar |
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Posts: 9469 (09/28/08 05:54:40) |
Or better yet, just hire Chavez and he will invite in the Russians (?) who seem to know how to keep order. It may seem to be a roundabout way but you have to
get creative sometimes.
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