"our government did make the decision to go, because it is more or less the US's lap-dog, and has been since it began relying upon it for defence."

How nice to see you admit that your government made a decision. But if there is no actual security threat (as you routinely imply), why is it that Australia has any need for America's help in defense? Who are we defending you against?

"low blow, mate. at least i have an opinion and the nerve to argue it."

As do I. As do many. It was not a low blow, but a statement of fact. You do have an interesting imagination and you do come across - to me at least - as a child - naieve in many respects yet still so certain that you know the answers. By the way, eighteen would make you a legal adult in my country as well, but I don't often listen to my government either. I judge adult or child by what I see, not by numbers. Numbers only affect; they do not decide.

"i am not about to conform to more conventional opinions unless i believe them, and frankly i think conventional opinion is rife with lies."

You're right, of course. I have never said otherwise. But your opinions (as expressed often here) are rife with conventional teen angst, whether you notice it or not. You spend so much time bragging about how different you are that you do not notice how traditionally eighteen you really are. One could go to most any pop culture source and find a whole host of kids insisting on the exact same variety of "truths" as you with the exact same insistance that their lack of experience is actually right.

"all i have to say is that the french nobility had its hey-day. for a time they were worshipped by their people, and they were very very rich. then everybody up and chopped off their heads, because they had had enough."

Actually, you again show a lack of knowledge historically. There was no "everybody" involved. Just as in the American revolution (unknown to most), it was actually a minority who acted. It was just a minority who were actually willing to do something while the majority, as usual, sat on their asses and hoped no one noticed them.

"originally i meant it in the sense that the trade centre was nowhere near full when the plane hit (at least thats what i heard) and in the sense that one plane accomplished nothing (other than crashing). definition of successful? i guess if it wiped out your government and all of the squeeze-bags it is composed of, i would say it was successful."

Here's the problem often inherant in your posts: your opinions are completely irrelevent to other people's actions. What you define as successful has little to no bearing on what someone else does. Success is defined by the goals of the doer, not the observer. It seems to me that if one's goal is terror, then killing over 5000 people in one hop is far from "half successful".

"i should not say everything is the US's fault, because when i really think about where i stand on the matter, i realise that i know there is much greater evil around. im sorry for bringing this up."

Apology accepted. I for one am glad to see you finally admit this.

"but im still curious why jr is so proud."

jr is proud because he has ample reason to be. Whatever flaws you see (and, believe it or not, I would agree with many), he still lives in the country that - for all practical purposes - invented the freedoms that allow him to have his pride. He still lives in the country that - IMO - comes closest to actually living that dream. Yes, there are many MANY flaws, but there are also many non-flaws. It is as you stated: we are the most visible, so our flaws are often the most visible. That doesn't make them the biggest flaws, just the most visible. Nothing more.